The following has happened since yesterday:

The first response to my e-mail came from a third party, evidently a supporter of the anti-M.-fans. She explained that apparently, you don't have to be polite to people who annoy you:

"Just so you know, M. has a LONG history of doing what she did here on other lists that most of us have been on. & has been asked many times, but privately & publicly, to not do some thing. Much like yourself, one can only take so much of the same thing before one blows. M. has, unfortunately, driven writers & members away on other lists. Isn't something one would want to see....

As far as your little complaint about the OT stories, P. has said before that other types of stories are welcome on her lists provided that they are prefaced with an OT on the subject line. It's that way on just about every list she owns."

So the common opinion seems to be that M. is so annoying that she deserves to be slapped down hard. Not that I've actually witnessed her being outstandingly annoying; yes, she liked to respond to fic posts with one-liners and either wholeheartedly praised the story or else complained that it was not Gibbs/DiNozzo.

I'm on approx. 73 mailing lists (and that's only counting the ones I'm not on 'No Mail" on), and I, for one, haven't encountered M. anywhere but on [Gibbs_And_DiNozzo].

If she has actually violated the list rules (or offended a lot of the list-members), then common courtesy demands that at first, she gets informed that what she's doing is frowned upon, then warned that if her behavior continues, she'll be removed from the list, and finally - if the offense continues - gets banned. However, here (at least on-list) there was no warning, just an (over-)reaction following a volatile situation created by other people.

Regarding the OT posts apparently welcomed on [Gibbs_And_DiNozzo], I just checked the group description again, and no, there still is no paragraph stating that the posting of fic of the non-Gibbs/DiNozzo variety is allowed. If there had been, I might not have joined the list in the first place. Why, at least, doesn't P. ask that such fanfic is only linked to (for the people interested in other pairings) instead of posted, thereby allowing it to flood the list (and the subscribers' inboxes)?

The next person to speak up was B., the author in question, that I never actually identified by name. Still, she knew I was referring to her. She felt the need to explain herself:

"This has been a situation over a half dozen lists for maybe...six to eight months. On list, off list. You would not believe the off list harangues some people have shared. I had twelve emails this week alone off-list demanding answers to why I wouldn't bring an underage Tony into a story. I'm sorry but that deeply offends me.

G/D stories, non G/D stories, if they aren't smut alone, I take heat, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. In fact, I know it. I've had emails with a few authors who are convinced that *nobody* wants to read plot any more, it's all about the smut.

Many many authors have been *driven away* from posting on mailing lists--period. Which does nothing positive for any of us on the list. I'm not saying any *one person* is to blame, but this situation doesn't help.

I'm sorry you feel my posts are "spamming" the list. I did indeed check with P. who encouraged the posting of NCIS related fic (including crossovers), on this list. If that changes, I'll be glad to stop posting my non G/D stories (Or even stop posting here altogether if it is an issue).

Like it or not, words and tone of feedback *do* have an impact on the amount of authors posting here. Two authors today alone indicated that they'll resume posting. While I'm sorry that things came to a head (again) with M., I'm glad that we'll be getting a larger variety of stories here.

I'm genuinely sorry if my post was upsetting to you or if my fic posts in general are."

This is a mature, calm and dispassionate response. Bravo. I might not like this authors' works (or the pairings that she thinks up :::shudder:::), but I like her rational e-mail.

However, I can't quite understand her problem with the e-mails (from M. alone? The text is not entirely clear.) she claims to have received. Especially since I can't imagine M. sent them all faced with a non-response. I'd have answered the first, made it clear I had no intention of writing chan, and then I'd have deleted the rest unanswered. Let's tell the truth - half of the comments one gets on a posted story consist of grammatically-challenged one-liners demanding a sequel. If one has time on their hands, one will respond politely in the negative. If one hasn't, then one won't answer at all.

And frankly? I might be hard-pressed to choose between a chan slash story and one about a threesome featuring a woman plus my OTP. It'd all depend on the fandom, and the characters involved, but in NCIS? Gibbs/DiNozzo/Shepard? Makes me cringe.

As for M.'s actions supposedly making the list a hostile environment which prevents authors from posting - please, get real. Any author who's enough of a shrinking violet (or prima donna) that even the hint of a negative reaction to one of their stories forces them to wander off with their ego all in tatters, go grow up. I detest authors who demand feedback, or coddling, or constant praise. One writes for oneself in the first place, and for others only far, far later. Write because you have a story to tell, or else shut up. We'd all be better off.

So, again, thanks, B. I don't agree with all of your points, but I like the stance you've taken. If only all list-members were so grown-up.

Finally, P. - in her role as listmom - spoke up and interjected the following:

"I guess to folks who hadn't lived through the blitz on NavyNCISslash the decision to remove M. might seem harsh, but those who lived through the foolishness would not be surprised. to tell the truth. Here on this list, the foolishness has been mild, on the other list M. was given repeated chances to change her ways and conform to the list rules but although she agreed to stop trying to rewrite the author's work to her requirements, she would start up right back up a day or so later. It turned the list into a nightmare. I don't want a repeat of that here. To many authors left due to her badgering

You mentioned apologizing to M. for jumping all over her. Past experience...does no good. Ever hear of a troll? Thats the behavior we were heading for. Better to nip it before it gets out of control"

P.'s not much with the punctuation, but at least the first paragraph of her post lets me hope that M. wasn't surprised and flabbergasted when she was kicked off the list, but might have received sufficient warnings off-list before it happened.

But, again, any authors unable to 'take the heat' have my sympathy. Not. Don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out.

As far as I have seen, M. wasn't a troll. She always, always proved that she had read what she was commenting on, and while her responses tended to be repetitive and/or disjointed (and made me suspect that she either wasn't a native speaker or still under the age of 18... or both), she knew when to stop. I received a comment of hers on my NCIS story with which she asked for a sequel, and when I said that so far, I had no plans for one, she quieted down.

The thing I still blame the first M.-basher for? The unwillingness to own up to their mistake and apologize to M.

B. is okay. P., however, should have handled the whole thing less like a biased judge and more like the experienced listmom her time in fandom should have made her.

Apparently, the topic is closed now anyway, seeing as how one list-member suggested it and P. agreed. Looks like a response by me to everything said above isn't required - or desired. Well, at least I haven't been banned like I semi-expected.

Still, I've sent a private e-mail to B. because she sent her response both to the list as well as to me privately. That hopefully concludes this matter.

I wrote:

Thank you for this rational, mature reaction to my post. I wasn't sure what to expect, and while I still don't agree with P.'s decision to ban M. (apparently I'm on no list aside from [Gibbs_And_DiNozzo] that M.'s been a member of), I appreciate your e-mail.

I believe authors should be strong enough to cope with negative feedback (or annoying infantile posts à la "More! More!" or "When will you write a sequel?!"), and wandering off in a huff (or a bout of self-doubt) and refusing to keep on posting to a certain list is not a very mature reaction, so I can't agree on that.

The post I took umbrage at was offensive and malicious in the regard that the poster avoided apologizing on-list to M. while the latter was still a list-member. No matter how annoying M. might have been, no one deserves to be bashed so extensively in front of over 500 people.

As I'm sure you're aware I am a rabid fan of the Gibbs/DiNozzo pairing and refuse to read other pairings featuring one or more of the NCIS characters. That doesn't mean that I believe others don't have the right to read (or write) such pairings; however, insofar as posting them to [Gibbs_And_DiNozzo] is concerned, I'm still of the opinion that P. should change the group description if she intends to keep allowing such stories to be posted to the list. I'd prefer if such stories were posted somewhere else, for a different group of recipients, or at least if authors writing a non-Gibbs/DiNozzo story only posted story links and not the stories as a whole in order to pay attention to other people's sensibilities as well as spare people with dial-up internet access whose mailboxes would prefer shorter e-mails.

But that's up to P., mainly, and I haven't been very impressed with her actions here so far.

So, again, thank you for your calm approach to this topic."

M., I feel for you.

The whole mess still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.