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allaire: (forest)

This story is agenda!fic set post-"Critical Mass". Just so you're warned.

Newton's Third Law
Author: allaire mikháil
Fandom: Stargate: Atlantis
Pairing: McKay/Sheppard, Lorne/Parrish and others
Rating: PG-13
Summary: For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.
Beta thanks to: [livejournal.com profile] lemonbella and [livejournal.com profile] fenris_wolf0.

The download-friendly .html version of this story can be found here. Enjoy!


Newton's Third Law


Unsurprisingly enough it started with the engineering department, for reasons that in retrospect were more than obvious.

The engineers chose Dr. Simpson as their representative and, in the hours before Radek entered Dr. Weir's office, they fell suspiciously silent every time Rodney came near. He was too tired, punchy, and too busy thinking about the necessary city repairs to notice anything amiss, so he simply dissolved any such gatherings with his usual: "You are idiots. You are non-productive idiots. Stop whispering and get back to work already!"

On paper, he was the department head of hard and soft sciences alike, but he was happy to hear as little of the anthropologists, linguists and biologists et al as possible. Thankfully they were usually sensible enough not to interrupt his much more important work, but today seemed to be the exception. So while he noticed Katie Brown, mousy and unattractive with tear-swollen eyes and a new-found penchant to stare at the floor, scurrying through his lab and dragging Zelenka to the side, he was quite happy not to be the person chosen to resolve whatever blunder the biologists had made.

Perhaps her tears even stemmed from a more personal problem (after all, breaking up with him had to count as a monumental mistake, Rodney thought smugly), and now she needed advice as how to win him back. No matter - he was over her.

The silent tug-of-war between a resolute Dr. Parrish and a ghostly pale Major Lorne at the doors to the astrophysics lab was something else entirely, but considering that Lorne and Sheppard had an 'I-don't-notice-anything-amiss-if-you-don't' thing going on, he bit back a sarcastic comment that otherwise would have more or less amounted to, "Having a lovers' spat, are we?". Instead he just stared at Parrish until the man was finished whispering with Zelenka, started twisting his hands and hurried out.

The rest of the morning was spent making sure that any Trust manipulations of the city's systems had been eradicated, new security parameters set, and that Cadman had finally tied her stupid hair out of her face. She had refused to budge from her computer, and the fourth time she had blown back a blonde strand hanging into her face, Rodney had pointed her in the direction of the infirmary and told her that Atlantis was no place for a Barbie contest and to go rediscover her secret inner woman with Carson.

Her rejoinder had been particularly biting, but he'd closed the lab door in her face; sometimes he really loved having the gene. He snorted at the memory, looked up from his laptop, intent on sharing his observations with Radek, only to find the other scientist gone.

Then he heard shouting coming from the 'gate room and hurried to investigate.

He stopped short and averted his gaze to stare at the handful of techs and guards next to the dialing computers. Elizabeth was sequestered with someone and voicing her displeasure rather loudly - an experience he remembered only too well. He frowned as he realized it was not her raised voice that resonated from her office overseeing the 'gate room - the voice was male and had a Czech accent.

He couldn't come up with a single explanation as to why Radek would be in a shouting match with Elizabeth. Yesterday he would have sworn that Zelenka would never dare stand up to Elizabeth; the Czech's puppy-dog worship was as pathetic as it was wretched, and he'd told Radek so until the other man had shot back with a barb concerning Rodney's understandable admiration of Dr. Carter. After that, they'd decided on a détente and Rodney even refrained from rolling his eyes when it got really bad. Although, on these occasions the staring matches between Zelenka and Teyla were a thing of beauty.

He tried to understand the words being shouted which, due to the volume, wasn't all that difficult.

"...Dr. Weir, you have no choice! We are civilians and not subject to orders given by the US military! If we want to go back, nobody is going to say we cannot; this is an outpost and the first line of defense in the war against the Wraith, and everybody at home will understand that we don't want to die out here now that we can go back to Earth. I've e-mailed you the new crew manifest for the Daedalus' return to Earth. The ship leaves tomorrow with Colonel Caldwell in custody, and 96 of Atlantis' 117 scientists on board."

Rodney's mouth was hanging open. That was almost the entire science department.

"We will not wait for replacements for who knows if or when they will be sent. More than one government would happily leave us here to die if only to get back a little Ancient tech, yes, or the Daedalus' next trip will be miraculously delayed - we cannot take that risk. You of course can meet each of us and ask us to stay, but they have all asked to have their departmental representatives present at each such discussion."

Rodney blinked. He couldn't wrap his mind around what he'd heard. He waited for a riposte from Elizabeth, but her office remained strangely silent. That was when he remembered that he was Atlantis' Chief Science Officer, and it would be well within his rights to have a part of any shouting matches involving his underlings, especially if they were of the Czech Judas variety.

He stormed up the stairs and burst into Elizabeth's office after a wholly perfunctory rap against the stained-glass door.

"Radek, Elizabeth, are you both insane?! What is going on here?!"

Elizabeth was not the furious red color he'd expected, but rather a shade of pale that made her too-dark mascara stand out even more than usual. Radek flinched, dropped a PDA and stared at him as if he were on the edge of a heart-attack. Rodney noticed in a detached way that the other man was trembling.

"Okay, fine, when did I enter the Twilight Zone? Why do I have to hear about pretty much the whole scientific department wanting to return to Earth? Radek?" He shot the Czech his best glare and kept waiting for Elizabeth to react. He couldn't understand why she didn't say anything.

Zelenka visibly pulled himself together and said quietly, but firmly: "The engineering department has started a petition that 96 of us have signed - we want to leave Atlantis and return to Earth. We are civilians and cannot be forcibly held in a war zone against our will. We will leave on the Daedalus."

"Yeah, I got that bit," Rodney snapped back. "I thought the Goa'uld was only in Caldwell's brain and not in everyone else's." He shuddered at the thought of Caldwell's eyes flashing white. "Leave Atlantis? What for? Sure, there are the Wraith, but we survived the siege, and unless Sheppard spills it all - again! - to the next pretty female Wraith or Wraith sympathizer he stumbles across, they'll keep on believing we are dead. Flaming nuclear inferno, remember?"

"Rodney!" Radek pulled off his glasses and pushed a hand through his hair. It looked even more Einsteinesque than usual. Elizabeth kept staring at the top of her desk. Rodney smirked and tried to ignore the heavy weight in his stomach warning him that something was seriously wrong.

"Dr. Simpson has talked to Dr. Kavanagh--"

"What?!" Rodney shouted.

"--and while they often disagree professionally, yes, they are still colleagues and perhaps even friends, and she refuses to stay under the command of someone who ordered him tortured. As do we."

Rodney's brain suddenly was strangely blank and refused to come up with a rejoinder.

"I come from a country where not too long ago civil rights were something that the government agencies spurned whenever they felt like it. Many of us had friends arrested for nothing, yes, or friends who disappeared, or friends who fled the country. Even the Geneva Convention forbids the torture of captured military personnel, and we are civilians. Dr. Weir and Lieutenant Colonel Sheppard crossed a line that should never have been crossed--"

"Now wait a minute! Sheppard had no--"

"--and we don't trust her leadership anymore. We leave. Perhaps we'll even leave the SGC altogether." And with that, Radek turned on his heel and left.

Rodney stood rooted to the spot, mouth open, face hot, looking at Elizabeth who was still staring at her desk and hiding her face behind her hand. She made no sound, but there was moisture running through her fingers and dropping on the uppermost report spread on the desk's surface.

He was just about to offer her a tissue when a cheerful Sheppard bounced in through the door.

"Elizabeth - oh, hi Rodney - we can recommence gate travel tomorrow, right? Are will still up for M7X-452? The MALP came back--" Sheppard fell silent at the sight of their frozen expressions.

"Hey, what happened? Rodney, is your lab out of coffee already?"



"Stargate: Atlantis" ficlet by allaire mikháil, 1.508 words, McKay/Sheppard, Lorne/Parrish and others, McKay POV, rated PG-13, set in Season 2 immediately post-"Critical Mass".

This story is as much agenda!fic as one can get and stemmed from various discussions in the aftermath of "Critical Mass". The episode and its statement - "Torture is okay if the victim is a jerk and if you feel moderately bad about it afterwards." - turned my stomach, and the non-reaction it caused in far too many corners of the fandom really got my ire up. I'm particular like that.

Thanks to [livejournal.com profile] fenris_wolf0 for insisting that I value canon over fanon (in regard to Zelenka's speech pattern) as well as for making me defend my opinions. The biggest thank-you, though, goes to [livejournal.com profile] lemonbella for a beta job extraordinaire and for encouraging me to polish this until it shone.

Comments

[identity profile] rolobandit.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 28th, 2006 08:53 pm (UTC)
This rocks!
I love this story - I can only hope there are future chapters and stories associated with it. Also, where were some of the discussions - I would love to read them. I had the hugest issues with Critical Mass as an episode. I can so see Radek having a huge problem with it.
[identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 09:07 pm (UTC)
Re: This rocks!
Thanks! I cannot promise any future chapters or sequels - at least at the moment -, as "Critical Mass" successfully diminished my love for the fandom and the main characters. I still keep hoping that that's only temporary, though!

I'm glad you had issues with the episode as well. :-)
Re: This rocks! - [identity profile] lishel_fracrium.livejournal.com - Jun. 12th, 2006 07:11 am (UTC) Expand
Re: This rocks! - [identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com - Jun. 12th, 2006 04:45 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: This rocks! - [identity profile] lishel_fracrium.livejournal.com - Jun. 12th, 2006 08:10 pm (UTC)
[identity profile] emrinalexander.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 28th, 2006 09:56 pm (UTC)
You've made a wonderful start here, I'd like to see the rest of the fall-out though. I've been waiting and hoping that there would be a story or stories that would deal with the actual ethical/moral fall-out from Sheppard and Weir's - to me- unconscionable actions in Critical Mass (and Allies).
[identity profile] mecurtin.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 28th, 2006 10:05 pm (UTC)
What she said. Will Rodney leave with them? I don't actually think he would, I think he'd stay (to clean up the mess, to deal). But how would Sheppard react? And Carson aka Mengele Lite? (yes, I have issues with Carson's ethics.)
(no subject) - [identity profile] emrinalexander.livejournal.com - Apr. 28th, 2006 10:35 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com - Apr. 29th, 2006 09:10 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [identity profile] justabi.livejournal.com - Apr. 28th, 2006 10:56 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com - Apr. 29th, 2006 09:12 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [identity profile] neery.livejournal.com - Apr. 30th, 2006 09:31 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com - Apr. 30th, 2006 08:37 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com - Apr. 29th, 2006 09:11 pm (UTC)
[identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 09:13 pm (UTC)
I've been waiting and hoping for the same. If you ever stumble across some, would you tell me about them? Please? I'd love to read them.
(no subject) - [identity profile] emrinalexander.livejournal.com - Apr. 30th, 2006 02:08 am (UTC)
[identity profile] cynonymous.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 28th, 2006 10:48 pm (UTC)
Lovely. Thanks for writing this -- I had problems with that episode too.

I'd love to see some fallout over this in season 3 -- maybe
Weir's authorizing the torture and the poor judgment/lack of ethics the team showed in Michael and Allies will prompt an investigation of Weir's command with the threat of replacing her, perhaps with Caldwell. (Ironically, Caldwell was an innocent bystander in Critical Mass -- he was under the influence of a Goauld at the time.)

I remember reading an observation elsewhere that Weir and Co. were more ethical when they were more desperate (Season 1, with no means of escape from Pegasus and the Wraith) than they are in Season 2, when they have a way out. Compare the Weir who scolds Rodney for taking the ZPM from children and smacks down Ford for suggesting doing it again in Season 1 with the Weir in Critical Mass, Michael and Allies.
[identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 10:05 pm (UTC)
Glad you liked it!

I haven't seen any episodes post-"Grace Under Pressure", but I've heard enough to be very wary of what's to come.

I think I remember the observation you are referring to somewhere, too. Also, too bad fanon!Weir is so much nicer than what canon has shown us of her abilities (non-existent) and her morals (more than dodgy). *sigh*
[identity profile] justabi.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 28th, 2006 10:59 pm (UTC)
Seriously, just because no one *actually* tortured Kavanaugh, that makes it okay. Not. And he totally would have told! There *should* be fallout. I mean, I like to tell myself that Ronon was just going to use psychological stuff like scaring the crap out of him for info, but yeah, I don't think he really is that subtle.
[identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 10:09 pm (UTC)
Yeah, "Ronon" and "subtle" do not really belong into the same sentence, do they? *g*

And the first thing Kavanagh would have done as soon as they were close enough to contact Earth would have been to demand a private chat with Gen. Landry. Not that I think that that wouldn't have been perfectly within his rights - to the contrary. I can just imagine the color Landy's face would have turned, and then the hordes of Pentagon people showing up at the SCG...

(But hey, we have canon! Where none of that seemed to have happened at all.)
(no subject) - [identity profile] neery.livejournal.com - Apr. 30th, 2006 09:34 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com - Apr. 30th, 2006 08:46 pm (UTC)
[identity profile] downloadable08.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 12:54 am (UTC)
Fascinating piece on an episode that raised a lot of unnerving questions. After this and "Michael", I'm starting to wonder about the command staff's ethics as well. Excellent work--thank you for sharing.
[identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 10:15 pm (UTC)
Evidently ethics come cheap in Pegasus. Or something.

Glad you liked!
ext_975: photo of a woof (Default)
[identity profile] springwoof.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 01:25 am (UTC)
woah! very powerful.

your choice to have Zelenka be the spokesman made it even more powerful, IMO. The perception of Zelenka is that he is a "trustworthy" character, the "good guy," so the impact of him saying those things is that much greater.

and I liked your depiction of McKay's dilemma. Torn between his loyalty to Sheppard and Weir, and his own agreement with Zelenka's POV
[identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 10:35 pm (UTC)
Zelenka was the only person with enough standing (apart from the main characters, that is) who could believably face Weir.

As I see it, Rodney has made his decision a few hours ago when he decided to not oppose Weir and Sheppard's decision to order Kavanagh tortured. I believe he is glad to have earned back enough of Weir and Sheppard's trust to no longer feel outcast after his actions in "Trinity" and was unwilling to rock the boat and risk it all again for a man he doesn't even like. Which makes it all the more tragic in my eyes - Kavanagh is one of his people, and thus deserving of his protection.

Rodney's failure in that respect is at least as tragic as Sheppard's ruthlessness and Weir's lack of morals.
(no subject) - [identity profile] springwoof.livejournal.com - Apr. 30th, 2006 12:40 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com - Apr. 30th, 2006 01:04 am (UTC)
ext_834: (SGA fan)
[identity profile] krysalys.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 05:46 am (UTC)
Wow
Totally excellent. And I've been really bothered about that whole thing myself. Yes, Elizabeth mentions in following episodes how she crossed a line with her decision, but yeah... where are the physical consequences aside from her smote conscience? Yes, the military guys all toed the party line with the "in desperate times" stuff, but really... how would the science contingent react? And to what extreme? The writers really should've put even something in following eps about how many scientists left Atlantis because of what'd happened with Kavanagh.

Also, did Kav have any contact with any of the other expedition members after the aborted information retrieval, or did he immediately go back to the Daedalus? You did an excellent job with this, m'dear. And I'd love to know if Rodney was able to change some of the others' minds.

Really interesting how you had every one of the scientists going behind Rodney's back and completely undermining his authority. Et tu, Radek? Man, just knowing Rodney would call for a mandatory all-departmental meeting with the science departments after that confrontation makes me want to be a fly on that conference room wall!

Wow. Thank you for sharing this, hon.
----}-@
[identity profile] neery.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 08:00 pm (UTC)
Re: Wow
Yes, Elizabeth mentions in following episodes how she crossed a line with her decision

She does? I must have missed that, or maybe it's in Allies, which I haven't seen yet. Can you tell me where she says that?
Re: Wow - [identity profile] krysalys.livejournal.com - Apr. 29th, 2006 08:23 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [identity profile] neery.livejournal.com - Apr. 30th, 2006 09:36 am (UTC)
Re: Wow - [identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com - Apr. 29th, 2006 10:44 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [identity profile] krysalys.livejournal.com - Apr. 29th, 2006 11:15 pm (UTC)
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Re: Wow - [identity profile] krysalys.livejournal.com - Apr. 30th, 2006 05:37 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com - Apr. 30th, 2006 08:56 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [identity profile] krysalys.livejournal.com - Apr. 30th, 2006 09:26 pm (UTC)
Re: Wow - [identity profile] djinanna.livejournal.com - Apr. 30th, 2006 06:25 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [identity profile] krysalys.livejournal.com - Apr. 30th, 2006 06:50 pm (UTC)
Re: Wow - [identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com - Apr. 30th, 2006 08:59 pm (UTC)
[identity profile] piplover.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 07:31 am (UTC)
A good story, though I can't agree with it. I can see where the scientists came from, but I just don't see them doing that. I don't mean to be critical. I truly enjoyed the story, and it made people think. But in my opinion, I just can't see the scientists leaving. They're fighting a war, and I doubt any one of them would protest an action that would have kept them alive. Speaking from experiance, lines become blurred when it comes down to you or them. And the will to survive is far stronger than morals.
[identity profile] neery.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 07:56 pm (UTC)
And the will to survive is far stronger than morals.

That may be true, although I doubt that it's true of everyone, but at the time of this fic, the scientists aren't in immediate danger. It's not a situation of "Torture him or you will be killed", where I agree that many people would agree to the torture. They find out that Kavanagh has been tortured after the fact, and already knowing that in the end, there was another way to save everyone, and that Kavanagh was innocent.

I certainly wouldn't stay in a war zone where my choice was death or torture, and I would never stay to serve under a commander who agreed to torture. If she did it to save lives, I might understand her motivation, I might even agree with her decision, but I would still want to see her punished, if only for the principle of the thing. There have to be really, really important reasons why the people in power can't use torture, or they will likely abuse the priviledge. I certainly wouldn't want to stay somewhere where Elizabeth Weir's faulty judgement could subject me or my friends to torture, without even any consequences for her.
(no subject) - [identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com - Apr. 29th, 2006 10:46 pm (UTC)
[identity profile] not-sally.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 07:46 am (UTC)
Love the idea for the fic (as I was one of the disgusted fans that could not believe the non-reaction towards the almost torture thing) but that was goddamn depressing.
Easy solution? Put Rodney and Radek in charge, send Elizabeth back to Earth, and de-program all the military so they can be humans again.
[identity profile] neery.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 07:59 pm (UTC)
Put Rodney and Radek in charge

Well, Rodney didn't exactly protest the decision to torture Kavanagh as vehemently as he could have. He isn't really an innocent in this episode, either.
(no subject) - [identity profile] not-sally.livejournal.com - Apr. 29th, 2006 08:12 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [identity profile] neery.livejournal.com - Apr. 29th, 2006 09:00 pm (UTC) Expand
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(no subject) - [identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com - Apr. 30th, 2006 09:06 pm (UTC)
(no subject) - [identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com - Apr. 29th, 2006 10:47 pm (UTC)
[identity profile] sgatlantislight.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 01:51 pm (UTC)
Good job. I think the ethical decay shown in episodes like Michael and Critical Mass are intentional on the writers' parts-- they were going for darker, and man!, they got really, really, inky-black dark.
ext_834: (All Hail The Genius)
[identity profile] krysalys.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 08:30 pm (UTC)
Heh
They could go much, much darker if they really wanted yto. *VBEG*
It'd just change the ratings, is all. And that wouldn't be beneficial to the SFC's bottom line.
*snort*

But yeah, it's been interesting watching the ethical and moral codes of the various characters (especially the doctors and scientists, considering most of the soldiers have been literally trained to deal with and understand that kind of thing and the geeks weren't aside from their ethics courses) slip, blur and fade along the edges throughout the second season. Which makes me really eager to see just how low they'll go to get the job done in regards to the Wraith.

Not to mention how Earth's gonna be dealing with the Orii. Hrm, wouldn't it be interesting if those two or three Wraith Hive ships end up getting sent to the Orii's home galaxy? *BG*
----}-@
(no subject) - [identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com - Apr. 29th, 2006 10:53 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [identity profile] sgatlantislight.livejournal.com - Apr. 29th, 2006 11:21 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com - Apr. 29th, 2006 11:36 pm (UTC)
[identity profile] 30toseoul.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 02:16 pm (UTC)
Great fic. I had huge problems with that episode too--mostly stemming from Weir's behavior throughout the seasons; the woman's motivations and actions are all over the map, and it's shitty writing. I have a really, really hard time with the idea that someone who was apparently a negotiator in Bosnia would order a war crime (agonizing over it or not) because that's what she did. I wouldn't have had a problem ordering Kavanagh tortured myself, but I'm ex-military and a little soulless. The version of Weir that the writers usually try to push, she isn't supposed to be like that.

And I agree with you that there should've been some fallout among the scientists. Maybe not as strong as this--because as [livejournal.com profile] piplover says above, survival tends to trump everything else--but hell, they should've shown something. It could have set the stage for some great tension about leaders making the hard decisions to save the city and its people.
[identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 10:58 pm (UTC)
Re: Heh
I have a really, really hard time with the idea that someone who was apparently a negotiator in Bosnia would order a war crime (agonizing over it or not) because that's what she did.

Weir. The woman who's skilled, ethical and a good commander in fanon. And utterly incompetent in canon. :::sigh:::

And yeah, "Critical Mass" was a prime example for extremely bad writing. I was so deliriously happy at the show's beginning when it became obvious that its writers had learned from SG-1 and started with a much higher quality, script- and character-wise. I should have known it wouldn't last.
[identity profile] neery.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 07:57 pm (UTC)
Wow I really love this ficlet, and it's just what I wanted to see after Critical Mass. I hated that epsode, and the way everyone of the main character's behaved in it. That was truly disgusting.
[identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 29th, 2006 11:00 pm (UTC)
...and it's just what I wanted to see after Critical Mass. I hated that epsode, and the way everyone of the main character's behaved in it. That was truly disgusting.

You know by now, right, that I can only say "Me too!" whenever you post a comment here? *g*
[identity profile] adannu.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 30th, 2006 09:08 am (UTC)
Brrr. Yes. This really shows how far Weir and Sheppard are slipping down the slope of ethics as the show goes on, especially after that episode.
[identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 30th, 2006 09:10 pm (UTC)
Sadly enough. :::sigh:::

Glad you liked it. *g*
[identity profile] sjkasabi.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 30th, 2006 12:41 pm (UTC)
Wow! Finally a fic of the type I was expecting to read heaps of after that ep. (And a good fic too! Thank you so much!)

I've actually just mainlined first season again, and once you've seen the dodgy ethics of the second so very very visible, it's hard not to see the series of unethical decisions that lead them into hotter and hotter water for no actual benefit as the key S1 story arc too. Even eps that don't focus on it, like Hide and Seek, make sure the theme is there (eg Beckett happy to do stuff to his non-informed-consent-providing friends in Atlantis that no Earth ethics committee would let him to do fully consenting subjects without a lot more research and animal trials and safeguards).

I'm hoping we'll get more of Kavanaugh next season - and that we'll find out what he was actually up to, since the circumstantial evidence does seem to suggest he was doing something, just not helping the Goauld... Maybe reporting back to a human rights watch organisation or something. Or - it could be interesting - to someone who does care about the ethical issues at SGC? He seemed in Letters from Pegasus to have some expectation that reporting violations of the Geneva Convention to O'Neill would be received seriously...
[identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 30th, 2006 09:18 pm (UTC)
Wow! Finally a fic of the type I was expecting to read heaps of after that ep. (And a good fic too! Thank you so much!)

My pleasure. *g*

I've actually just mainlined first season again, and once you've seen the dodgy ethics of the second so very very visible, it's hard not to see the series of unethical decisions that lead them into hotter and hotter water for no actual benefit as the key S1 story arc too.

I know. It's hard to believe that something like that could be unintentional, but believing SGA has that much depth? I'm torn.

I'm hoping we'll get more of Kavanaugh next season - and that we'll find out what he was actually up to

My personal explanation will always be that he was in a relationship with an US marine - something he had to keep silent to protect his lover. *g*

Or - it could be interesting - to someone who does care about the ethical issues at SGC?

I have difficulties believing someone like that exists at the SGC. Because even if he did, the regular characters of SG-1 would make sure said person came across as an asshole.

He seemed in Letters from Pegasus to have some expectation that reporting violations of the Geneva Convention to O'Neill would be received seriously...

I believe that was desperation more than anything. When you feel you've been treated abysmally you cling to the hope that someone in power will listen and help. And I am certain Kavanagh's treatment by Weir made sure he ended up at the bottom of the social ladder in Atlantis.
[identity profile] djinanna.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 30th, 2006 06:54 pm (UTC)
::nods sadly::

Yeah, I can see this. What other more coherent people said above about Weir. And Rodney. And Radek. Though Sheppard has dark places when he goes into protective mode, so maybe not as surprising.

Mostly, SGA is my happy place fandom. I am much with the crack and the fanon. But I do have frequent huge issues with the ethics, decision-making, and actions of the canon characters. Especially Weir.

This is such a painful story. I think there might be a way of salvaging the expedition even at the point you ended at, but ... it would be very difficult and would call for some big changes in command and command structure.

Thanks for the thoughtful and thought-provoking story. ::thinks hard about story premises and repercussions:: I hope you're able to hold on to/rediscover your SGA love.
[identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 30th, 2006 09:22 pm (UTC)
But I do have frequent huge issues with the ethics, decision-making, and actions of the canon characters. Especially Weir.

As do I.

This is such a painful story. I think there might be a way of salvaging the expedition even at the point you ended at, but ... it would be very difficult and would call for some big changes in command and command structure.

Yeah. I think it would at least cost Weir her position. I used to be afraid of a Marine Colonel like Everett being in charge. Now I'm not so sure anymore that that would be worse than the present!

Thanks for the thoughtful and thought-provoking story. ::thinks hard about story premises and repercussions:: I hope you're able to hold on to/rediscover your SGA love.

I'm glad it led you back to the events of "Critical Mass" - and of course that you liked it! *g*

Now all depends on Season 3...
[identity profile] joolz01.livejournal.com wrote:
Apr. 30th, 2006 11:22 pm (UTC)
Nice story. So well executed, and not an unreasonable reaction on the part of the scientists at all. A lot of contradictory interests are at stake.

And yes! Zelenka speaks in grammatically correct sentences. Thanks!
[identity profile] allaire.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 1st, 2006 12:00 am (UTC)
Thanks! But you've got [livejournal.com profile] fenris_wolf0 to "blame" for Zelenka's grammar - she made me go over the transcripts to prove to myself that yes, he may have an accent, but he does not drop his articles or speak like Yoda. *eg*
ext_948: (Default)
[identity profile] from-the-corner.livejournal.com wrote:
May. 2nd, 2006 02:38 pm (UTC)
This is very interesting tag and - to some point - quite possible outcome.
I don't like what we saw in "CM". But I was also thinking what else they could do, having only 25 minutes left... and I couldn't find any good ideas. That doesn't mean that there weren't any. Or that there were. Maybe it would be easier for me to accept Weir decision if I could believe that she would make it no matter who would be the suspect. But somehow I doubt she did.

So, I can understand this reaction. I can very closely relate especially to Radek's speech (giving where I live), but still it's hard for me to believe that almost all of scientist would go, just like this. And by "just like this" I mean hearing only Kavanaugh point of view. It's canon, that he wasn't very popular or liked so I really doubt they would made such drastic decision solely relying on what he said. Moral aspect aside - I don't think they trust him enough. "Just like that" - without talking to anyone, especially Rodney. And than Weir. They are brilliant, responsible people and they know value of their work. Requesting change in leadership - yes, quite probably. I'm all for it myself at the moment.

It's been irritating me through most of the season, what writers did to characters. The quantity and seriousness of problems that are left unresolved. I can only wish that they "sacrifice" few scenes in each episode for making amends. Yeah, I can wish... For me it's another proof that the writers think of us, fans, as a bunch of idiots who doesn't THINK.

I liked this story. Liked the writing (extra thanks for grammatically correct Radek ) and I share your point of view. It's just the means I see a bit different. I hope maybe one day you'll decide to write a sequel. Fallout of fallout :-)

(Anonymous) wrote:
Jun. 20th, 2006 11:24 am (UTC)
Finally
I don't have a livejournal, but I really wanted to comment on this fic, so please forgive the anon.

Thank you very much for writing this, allaire, I love this fic. The reaction of the scientists is believable and admirable.

After "Critical mass" and later "Michael" I was extremely close to never watching this series again. The only fitting words to describe my feelings for CM are "extremely disgusted", and the same holds true for "Michael".

The parallels to current real life events are obvious. I have no idea how much influence the US military really has on the actual content of the episodes. But to me this series more and more looks like propaganda, trying to spread the so-called "moral standards" the US military is applying in real life and raise their acceptance in the population. And sadly enough, the lack of negative reactions to those episodes seems to indicate it's working quite well.

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